08/14 Watertown Tab: "No Place for Hate" thrown out of Watertown

“No Place for Hate” thrown out of Watertown
August 14th, 2007 by Chris Helms

Before a packed house in the council chambers tonight, the Town Council voted unanimously to rescind all ties between Watertown and the “No Place for Hate” program, because of the stance toward the Armenian Genocide of its co-sponsor, the Anti-Defamation League.

The regional director for the ADL, Andy Tarsy, spoke at the meeting to hisses and boos and cat calls of “liar!” from the largely Armenian-American crowd. Tarsy reiterated the ADL’s public position that the issue of whether there was a genocide against the Armenians perpetrated by the Ottoman government during and after World War I is a matter for Turkey and Armenia to solve.

Town Council Marilyn Devaney urged that the town’s “No Place for Hate” sign be taken down tomorrow.

This move is bound to have national repercussions. Were you at the hearing tonight? Comment below and share your thoughts. We’ve also got an online poll going here.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 14th, 2007 at 8:07 pm and is filed under Armenians in Watertown, Town politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

54 Responses to ““No Place for Hate” thrown out of Watertown”
DiMascio Says:

August 14th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
I understand the Council meeting was blacked out tonight.
So here’s some details.

The Council voted 8-0 to rescind No Place For Hate. In so doing Watertown becomes the first community in America to reject the “Counterfeit Tolerance” espoused by the Anti-Defamation League. Watertown should be proud of itself.

First let me thank each and every Councilor for their tireless work on this issue.

Sideris will probably going to kill for even mentioning this, but too bad. I have to give particular kudos to Council Vice President Mark Sideris who has been quietly working on this for weeks.

Councilor Devaney, who actually brought forth the proclamation also needs to be singled out. We’ve come to expect no less from her. And I thank her for supporting the effort.

Now for some details.
Andrew Tarsy New England Director and Minister of Disinformation for the ADL got up and repeatedly lied about the ADL’s lobbying effort to defeat the congressional resolution.

He then tried to interrupt an Arab American woman who was describing all the civil rights violations the ADL commits against Arab Americans. He was finally booed out of the Council Chambers.

Now as for the local NPFH committee, they’ve committed to reorganization and to continue their work. I hope that they do.

I also see this as an opportunity for dialogue between the so-called “townies” and “crunchies” (as some have put it). If we can work together to find language for this proclamation that addresses everyone’s concerns, then perhaps in the process we can find other common ground.

All in all tonight was a victory for common sense.

David Says:

August 14th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Take DiMascio’s words with a grain of salt, after all he called Tarsy the “Minister of Disinformation for the ADL”. But then again, who doesn’t take DiMascio with a grain of salt?

Paul Says:

August 14th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
I thank and applaud the Watertown Coucil for their decision. It’s good to see the “little guy” winning for once in a case of outraged citizens vs. such a huge and powerful organization. This was a necessary step. Luckily it doesn’t seem like Watertown has a hate problem on its hands, but if ever such a program is needed I’m sure the citizenry and Council are more than capable to come up with one on their own without utilizing the help of an organization with ulterior motives.
I do hope the national press takes note of what happened, this is the kind of thing they should be reporting when more often than not their talking about Paris Hilton.

Ivette Says:

August 14th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
I was not at the town meeting, nor do I live in Watertown. In fact, I live in Los Angeles, but I’ve been following this story for quite some time. I’m glad that there was a vote to take down the sign…the Armenian-American residents of Watertown deserve a little dignity, not hypocrisy.

Bill Levinson Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 1:05 am
My father thought very highly of the ADL, and so did I. That was something like twenty years ago. ADL has, on Foxman’s watch, turned into a charade and a disgrace.

Foxman recently laid into CBS because of remarks someone made about Jews on “Big Brother,” a reality show. I’m not sure how this is any worse than the thing TV bigots like Archie Bunker and George Jefferson said about Blacks, Jews, and Poles, and white people respectively, or the racial and ethnic humor that permeates South Park.

Meanwhile, Foxman’s ADL whitewashed genuine anti-Semitic hate speech at MoveOn.org’s Action Forum. Unlike “Big Brother” (or “All in the Family”), these remarks were neither entertainment nor jokes. They were the kind of remarks that have been used to foment genuine hatred of Jews, and anti-Semitic pograms, for centuries. MoveOn’s people accused Jews of divided loyalties, controlling the media, and the like, while throwing in genuine blood libels about how the Talmud commands Jews to hate and even kill non-Jews. The ADL was quite content to write MoveOn a clean bill of health on the flimsiest pretext, despite being given proof that MoveOn knew about the hate speech and exercised editorial control in its favor. (It soon came to light that there was anti-Catholic and even racist hate speech as well, but this was not the primary issue at the time.)

Hitler said explicitly, “I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it, and the world’s failure to notice what was done to the Armenians encouraged Hitler to do the same thing to Jews, Poles, Gypsies, and Russians solely because of who they were. For ADL to try to sweep this genocide, or any genocide, under the rug is absolutely reprehensible and appalling.

The Armenian community should realize that the vast majority of Jews stand with them and not with groups like the ADL. ADL got exactly what it deserved tonight, and I will help spread the word as widely as possible. Hopefully ADL will now realize that it can have honor and credibility, or it can be a cheap political prostitute, but it cannot do both at the same time.

DiMascio Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 1:15 am
The sign was taken down within an hour of the vote. Way to go Gerry Mee and the DPW!

Mary-Aljian Hamparian Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Watertown, Bravo! You have shown the world that denial of genocides is not to be tolerated - anywhere. You
have shown the world that a moral compass exists for those who know that genocide should not exist on our
planet for when a genocide is denied it merely encourages despots to undertake genocide to accomplish their
own aims. Today, Watertown, you have made a difference in our world. Thank you.

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Two questions:

Given that the Watertown Cable Television subscribers subsidize the local access channel to the tune of $500,000 annually, why was last night’s meeting not broadcast?

If indeed the sign was taken down within an hour of the vote, was the Townie DPW crew (it takes three Townies to remove a sign) paid time and a half or double time for their work?


Ian Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
“Everyone is equal — but Some are More Equal than others.”

All genocides are NOT –and must never be– even remotely comparable in the eyes of the ADL-pated Foxman: there’s “The” Holocaust (big H) and then there’s … well … nothing much else at all.

DiMascio Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Ok, Cable had some kind of problem with the feed.
They will rebroadcast the meeting every night this week I think at 7:00 pm

Whatever we paid them to take down that bloody offensive sign was well worth it.

Since it’s inception, the program has wasted Council time and municipal man hours on something that should be sponsored and funded 100% from the private sector.

Hopefully the cost of taking the sign will be the last cost of this program to the town

I do hope the NPFH committee does re-organize and continue to do some of it’s work.
But they really don’t need a proclamation or municipal sanction.

Let the Council worry about fixing pot holes.

Susan Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
The town unanimously voted to take down the sign for the right reasons - the stance of the ADL on the Armenian Genocide, not because of the message of the program of “counterfeit tolerance”. Tolerance in Watertown is still something we should work towards, not in the interest of mind control, but in the interest of dispelling ignorance. Goodness knows, we tolerate DiMascio’s comments everywhere we look. I would say that Watertown is quite tolerant.

Being Jewish, I wholeheartedly agree with the Watertown stance and am deeply ashamed of the ADL’s position.

DiMascio Says:

August 15th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
.I’m a little confused by Susan’s comment.

If Watertown is quite tolerant, than do we need to works towards it????????

Watertown is not perfect. And we should, as individuals, be tolerant of one another. But we can’t impose it on those who won’t accept it.

I for one think that the focus should be on helping different cultures assimilate or better put integrate into the community. To that end helping legal immigrants to overcome language barriers is wonderful program.

Counseling kids in the schools when they’ve been the victims of disrespect is another good work that should be encouraged.

But we can’t create a utopia, and we can’t go around trying to protect every last persons feelings.

And again, I can’t give enough credit to Mark Sideris. Who last night encouraged the NPFH committee to expand the new group and get others involved that might not share the same opinions on or exactly the same approach to diversity and tolerance.

He’s right, the only way for this to really work is for all sided to hammer it out. Over the passed several weeks, Sideris has been working tirelessly on this. To be honest, he’s helped me see the other side as well and to his influence has given me a somewhat different outlook. The man is bridge builder. And last night he did not look for credit, he sat there like a statesman and was happy to a back seat, so long as the right thing got done.
And I thank God he didn’t wear the shaggadelic orange shirt he’s been know to sport. We might have talking foreign intrigue last night, but Mark is still no Austin Powers!!!

19 yr old previous watertown resident Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 7:06 am
I think that the sign should stay and their definately is a problem in that community with racisum not only to Armenian’s-but African Americans.The fact Teachers and communitys frown on Multicultural Especially black and white human beings discussed me first hand Ive been threw alot not only their but Belmont.I think the sign would make people realize that racisum still exsists and is not wanted as little as that will do its a effort I think we should try to Reach.

Susan Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 7:49 am
19 year old, I think you’re right, but it should not come either from within Watertown or from another organization. We cannot have ties to an organization that does not support something very important in this town - the past of the Armenians.

DiMascio, that’s the first thing you’ve written that I agree with, and you can’t impose tolerance. Just remember though that with hate comes bad things, things like genocides. If you look at all the histories of genocides, you see it begins with a few people hating, then those people convincing other to hate until it’s a whole or half a country who is hating and killing. While you can’t enforce tolerance, you can try to nip mass ignorance in the bud so that it doesn’t get out of hand. Only with education and learning about other cultures can you also start to understand other people, hopefully ending ignorance, though not forcibly.

If each of us looks at ourselves truthfully, we all hate someone. So be it. But to act on it and to cause others to hate because you do is wrong. Maybe the sign shouldn’t read “No Place For Hate”. Maybe it should read “No Place for Disrespect”, disrespect being an action and hate being a thought.

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 10:28 am
“Ok, Cable had some kind of problem with the feed.
They will rebroadcast the meeting every night this week I think at 7:00 pm”

“Some kind of problem with the feed…’for this we pay $500,000 a year in cable surcharges?

Perhaps someone should organize a campaign to redirect the $500,000 a year to fund another activity or cause. Better yet, eliminate the surcharge on our cable bills.

“…some kind of problem with the feed.” The digital age equivalent of “the dog at my homework”.


MrDave Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Armenian Americans are not asking for the ADL to merely acknowledge the Armenian genocide.
You see, ADL has long lobbied - often under the radar - against Armenian genocide resolutions.

Therefore, the ADL must reverse that behavior. Action, not words. It must undo the damage it has inflicted.

Armenian Americans are not going to accept some half-baked, insincere press release by ADL that it acknowledges the genocide, only to see ADL and its buddies continue their under-the-radar work on Turkey’s behalf.

This is made very clear on the web site www.noplacefordenial.com, in the “Petition wording”.

That is, nothing less than a public REVERSAL in ADL’s actual behavior is acceptable. Some persons may not be aware of that since this issue has developed only within the past few weeks.

And, by the way, why is ADL playing the role of geo-political kingpin on Turkey’s behalf? Is that ADL’s role as an anit-bias, human rights organization?

ADL is known to be playing the role as Turkey’s champion in the US, and you’ll find articles by political analysts on www.noplacefordenial.com on that.

Turkey is a major human rights violator. Is it really the role of ADL to stick up for Turkey and then play the role of supposed nice guy by bringing No Place for Hate into hundreds of communities in the US to boost ADL power and prestige?

In effect, whether NPFH’s are aware of it or not, ADL is implicitly using the well-intentioned people who join NPFH’s to serve as a vanguard of ADL’s foreign policy agenda - defending Turkish denials of genocide - that really not only has nothing to do with human rights, and but that also violates normal standards of human rights.

The grasssroots members of ADL will hopefully let their leaders know that the ADL must reverse its stand and work on issues that truly involve human and civil rights.

Jaded Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
To Rudolph Settich ,

Do you ever really bring anything to the table when you blog? Here we have a very real and serious issue that is so important to a core group of our community and all you want to do is attack “Townie DPW” employees and local cable access….. Do us all a favor and save your (not so funny) commentary for less pressing issues.

Bill Levinson Says:

August 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
“Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” I remember seeing this before, and I thought Hitler was referring to his plans to exterminate Jews. It turns out that he was talking about exterminating Polish people.

We should make sure Polish-American groups, and Poland, knows about Foxman’s efforts to downplay the Armenian genocide of 1915. The following shows that Hitler cited the world’s ignorance of the Armenian genocide in arguing that he could get away with exterminating the Poles. http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hitler.html

” I have issued the command — and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad — that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness — for the present only in the East — with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

Dave Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 3:13 am
Please go to www.jewishracism.com and read Christopher Jon Bjerknes’s latest enlarged book on the subjct matter of the Armenian Genocide. It is entitled, The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians.

Susan Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Dave, that is a bogus website written by hateful people. This is where hate gets out of hand. You don’t really take that website seriously, do you? This is the danger of hate. It becomes twisted, one-sided, and stupid, and it spreads itself like a virus. I wouldn’t suggest websites like this as your source of truthful information. It’s inflammatory, and it is the reason we need a “No Place For Hate” type of program. Let’s not get a Jew vs. Armenian thing going. Jews and Armenians have always gotten along very well, and it’s best to weed out the facts and not the inflammatory information.

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pm

Do you work for the “…Townie DPW…” or “…local cable access…” Or are you simply jaded?


I was not and you are not “blogging” We are posting to a public message board. Perhaps your miscomprehension of the term “blogging” is causing you to be overly sensitive about the posts on this site.

Have a pleasant weekend.


Chris Helms Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Hi Susan,

Thank you for your response to Dave. I moderate this list and struggled whether to approve Dave’s comment in the first place. This topic, as you might expect, brings out a lot of conspiracy theorists and outright racists and anti-Semites. Dave, I’m not saying you’re one of those, just that it has been a challenge moderating the discussion because of the avalanche of anti-Semitic comments, most of which I simply delete.
The best solution is when people like you, Susan, step forward and demand a hate-free debate. Thanks again.


Cant Standya Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Good to know that in Watertown we’re all free to hate whomever we choose.

The Donmeh Turks Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Why is the ADL protecting Turkey today ?

All of the below is easily verified.

Turkey has committed genocide against the Kurds over
the last 30 years, over 2,000,000 people displaced, over 2,000 villages destroyed and tens of thousands killed, minimum is 30,000 but this official number is far lower than real numbers.

The Turks have the best lobby, it is the ATC and AIPAC.
Most of the NeoCons, control Bush Admin, Lobby for Turks.


Who are the Donmeh Turks ?
Who are the Young Turks ?

The ADL is protecting Jews, the Donmeh are Jews, they are the Young Turks and they committed the genocide. Jews in the Ottoman Empire
were the Administration of the Ottoman Empire, they ran it. They took it over when it crumbled and committed genocide against the Christians,
with all too happy Muslim soldiers, the Kurds helped as well, so did almost all Western Powers, they kept quiet, and the NYT denied genocide as it was happening, just like in the Ukraine, they knew, they are enablers.

Wake up people.

The Donmeh Turks Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 12:59 am
To Susan and Chris Helms.

History is what it is and people need to understand
the real history in order to understand what is going
on here. The ADL has an agenda, they are doing their
job, PR and in their minds protecting Jews. They are
doing that. People do not understand that, they do not
want to admit who “their own” are. You are not supposed
to know the truth.

I am a student of History, I know history. Ancient History
is my specialty and I am very well versed on European History.

The Ottomans created Turkey, an artificial nation from many nations,
they forced multiculturalism, the Jews occupied high positions and were the administration, that was their main role. The Donmeh were the highest level with contacts at the highest levels of government throughout Europe, they even had German officers train their military, who are also responsible for the Genocide.

The capital of the Ottoman Empire in Europe was Thessalonike, it was a Greek city. The Turks were ruthless, they slaughtered the Europeans.
In southern Europe the Greeks were the main targets. After slaughtering the Greeks and emptying Thessalonike they filled it with tens of thousands of Jews from Spain who were kicked out for working with the Muslims, yes people, that was then when Israel/Palestine was not an issue.

Thessalonike became a Jewish city, Mustafa Kemal Attaturk, the founder of Turkey came from Thessalonike, he is Jewish. What else would he be?
The Jews were very wealthy, when Spain kicked them out they took their ships and created commercial centers elsewhere, Thessalonike and also
Holland being the main two.

This is European History. All of it is intertwined. Censoring one aspect
perverts other aspects of European History.

The destruction of Byzantium, a Greek city by the Turks, created a huge outflow of Greeks, 2 million of them, and the Renaissance was born.

Think people, you already know parts of this history.


Davd L Nilsson Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 6:15 am
What the hell should it matter to Americans who did what to whom decades ago and thousands of miles away? I could care less, and I suspect 99pc of Americans feel the same.

When are we going to clear out all these ax-grinders, pressure groupies and hyphenated Americans and get back to the Founding Fathers’ wisdom: neutrality, no “entangling alliances” and no going abroad to destroy monsters.

Jaded Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Rudolph Settich,

Hmm, forgive me, but I thought this was the “Watertown Blog”. Blogging, posting….whatever you want to call it, you’re still not witty. I find your comments about my “sensitivity” to be ironic given the subject of this “Blog”.

Simply Jaded.

No Hate Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 9:22 am
Susan is right when she says hate can be dangerous.

I see the Armenians are full of hatred against anything Turkish. They should face the historical facts and international genocide convention rules.

Suffering among warring parties can not be labeled as genocide, and that is exactly what the Armenians were: an armed group fighting against the Muslims of Anatolia, while Turkey was being attacked by many Christian Nartions during World War-1 (1914-1918). One sided lies are fabricated to win an argument, people and organizations are attacked in an effort to slience them.

No Hate or Too Much Hate?

Ann Heller Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Armenians should face the facts is right. The allegations of so called Armenian Genocide had been resolved by The British Tribunal in the island of Malta in 1919 that here was no evidence of war crime against Ottoman Turks towards Armenians during the World War I, after more than 2 years of investigation, including US archives. They were used by Russia, England, France, Italy, and Greece attacking Turks in order to occupy Turkish lands, attacking their own government. It is absolutely called the Armenina Revolt. They were collabrating with the enemy while the Ottomon Empire was in the WWI.
Keep in mind the whole Armenian Nation has kept their identity bringing the nations against each other so far -trouble makers!

Gamze Says:

August 18th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Enough is enough! When is the world going to wake up and smell the Turkish coffee? Why on earth would The Ottomans want civil unrest and internal strife while dealing foreign invaders? And when are the “poor” Armenians going to own up to the fact they created a civil war?

Joesph Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 1:19 am
A response to Ann Heller’s comment:”The allegations of so called Armenian Genocide had been resolved by The British Tribunal in the island of Malta in 1919 that here was no evidence of war crime…”
-Ann in case you didn’t know Watertown is in a country called The USA. British Tribunals have no authority in America, America declared its independence of Britain in 1776 so America is no longer a colony. I am not sure why Britain made that silly decree but it is clearly a false one. There is overwhelming evidence that supports the fact that Armenians were ethnically cleansed. In acknowledging there was an Armenian genocide that doesn’t mean hating Turkey or Turks… it is simply a matter of honoring the memories of those who lost their lives in a horrible tragedy.

Erkin Baker Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 8:07 am
Just saying it was genocide and pressuring and threatening other ethnic groups and governments does not make it so. What is needed is a legitimate acceptance that the tragic events that happened to the Armenians were the result of a civil war. The dictionary clearly says, when two sides are involved in an armed struggle over a piece of land, the casualties do not constitute genocide: it becomes a civil war. Of course, the Armenians want to present themselves as having been innocent bystanders, and hide the fact that they had an army of over a 100,000 well-armed men, who, having sided with the occupying forces, attacked Turkish towns and villages and fired the first shot.

To date, no authorized court of justice has found the Turks guilty of genocide. Any resolutions passed under the pressure by the Armenians are baseless. Only the United Nations and/or the International Court of Justice in the Hague has to declare that it was a genocide. And this has never been done.

Erkin Baker

Joesph Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Oh Ann if your gonna talk about international: Countries officially recognizing the Armenian Genocide include Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Cyprus, France, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, Lithuania, The Netherlands, Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Sweden, Switzerland, Uruguay, Vatican City and Venezuela. Although part of the United Kingdom, Wales also officially recognizes the Armenian Genocide. The Canadian provinces of Ontario and Quebec recognize the Armenian Genocide independently of their federal government. The Parliament of the State of New South Wales, Australia passed a resolution acknowledging and condemning the Armenian Genocide in 1997.

The opposition to Armenian genocide recognition is for political reasons, not academic ones.

“This day serves to remind us that this first genocide of our century served as a precedent for the holocaust of World War II when more than 6 million people were destroyed by a government leader who responded: “Whoever cared about the Armenians?” when it was suggested that the world opinion would not allow the Nazis to get away with their attempt to eliminate the Jewish people.”

C. Sandino Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
Has anybody ever wondered why the ADL would be interested in minimizing the Armenian genocide? History is written by the winners! Who are the dönmeh? Who were the young Turks cryto Jews? Please watch the following interview: Rev. Bedros Hajian’s second interview with Christopher Jon Bjerknes
1 minute is in Armenian but rest is in English
June 18, 2007
Then please visit http://www.iamthewitness.com/

Erol Palantekin Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
History is for historians, not politicians or for non subject experts on this very trajic event that is far more complicated than anyone here can figure out. The ADL’s not to take a stance on this alleged genocide what supposedly happened 92 years, is outside of mine and many of my friends priorities. It is a matter for the Armenians and Turks to work out.

As Davd L Nilsson said said in his comment, we are talking about an event that occurred 92 years ago. With all the domestic and international problems we are currently faced with, why are we even spending any time on this issue? Because the Armenians HATE TURKS and this is part of their multi million dollar campaign to discredit anyone who gets in their way.

Wake up America and see how the Armenians are hijacking our own governments by buying influence, a special interest group with an interest in something that is not inline with todays problems our communities are facing throughout the US.

As others have pointed out HATE is very dangerous and the Armenians are only after real estate, without any facts and believe that they can re-write history by influencing our politicians and pull the wool over every American in this country about what went on 92 years ago. This issue belongs in the World Court, in the Netherlands nowhere else because GENOCIDE is a very serious accusation, but Watertown or our own congress and local governments are not the place to debate, decide or accuse any country of this serious and heinous accusation.

Grish Begian Says:

August 19th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
August 19, 2007


I believe all influential and well organized group, lobbyist, such as Anti-Defamation League-sponsored `No Place for Hate’ program, addressing to Armenian Americans.

Armenian Americans are well deserved to get support by ADL and Jewish lobbyist, against unjust killing of their ancestors during world war one.

ADL should promote, and support, for justice “not hate” regarding to Armenian Genocide, using even “hate” word for a well organization, ADL, sound like ‘unusual’ and bring shame for Jewish communities around the World.

ADL should continue support, for the truth of Armenian Genocide, otherwise they should remain silent. Resolution 106 in US Congress may go for vote, but it is better, without intimidation, and poisoning the ordinary Americans publics’ minds.

As an Armenian Canadian, justice has been served in this country, and Canadians in Canada never heard of ‘no place for hate’ …sorry Mr. Foxman you are on the wrong side.

We are living here with “True North and Free” and no hate………….

Grish Begian,

Toronto , Canada

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 20th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Simply Jaded:

Have you considered changing your name to “Simply” ?

In any event you certainly should attempt to broaden your horizons beyond H2O Town. Citing this message board as a proof source in a semantics discussion reveals ethnocentrism that is extreme even for a Townie.

That being said, I do forgive you.


C. Sandino Says:

August 20th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Watertown, Ma could be a watershed moment in history. The Armenians could become a force against the Zionist if the could unravel their hidden history! Jewish racism could be unwittingly be unveiled by the “Amalekites.”


The ADL is caught between a rock and hard place. The propaganda that Americans have been spoon fed for decades could quickly unravel if you take the time to investigate your history.

Please consider how people will try to dissuade you from learning the truth.

quote from Erol Palantekin:
History is for historians, not politicians or for non subject experts on this very trajic event that is far more complicated than anyone here can figure out.


While the interview is in English, the first minute is in Armenian.

Chris Helms Says:

August 20th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
This is Chris Helms, moderator of this blog. I didn’t delete the above comment, but folks should know that the link points to a video titled “The Jewish Genocide of Armenian Christians.” As with everything on the Web, please keep your critical faculties fully engaged.

Jaded Says:

August 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Dear Rudolph,

Please help me, what other source exists for me to fully realize that your posts are nothing more than you amusing yourself? Since this “message board” is my only exposure to your drivel, I have nothing else to base my conclusions on. It reveals much about you that an opinion different than yours draws name calling from you. By the way, it was you who began the semantics discussion.


Steve Crist Says:

August 20th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
There is an excellent overview and mp3 interview on the subject of the Armenian genocide to be found at: http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith-Rafiq-20Aug2007.html . Please listen through, and vale.

Dan Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 1:25 am
“As with everything on the Web, please keep your critical faculties fully engaged.”

Easy there Chris, “you didn’t delete the comment” but felt compelled to say that what, on a different site you would have?

Dave Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 3:31 am
Susan, Chris Jon Bjerkenes, the webmaster of jewishracism.com is a Jew and if you take the time to look at the material you will strugle to find any evidence of hatred. You will also find lots of interesting material if you have the intestinal fortitude to do so. People may also benefit from listening to Mohammed Rafiq on this matter and then taking up further study:


Chris Helms Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 9:02 am
Hi Dan,

Had the post itself contained some of the clearly anti-Semitic material from the Web site rather than a mere link, yes, I would have deleted it. The site’s home page has a cartoon Einstein with an absurdly big nose. That’s a good clue of where that site is coming from.

MOzcem Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 9:19 am
Wow, I can see we are starting to get hits and comments from Turkey. LOL.

Friends, this is not Turkey where our own Nobel prize winning author, Orham Pamuk was thrown in jail, and less well known Turkish academics and journalists have been harassed, threatened, fired, arrested and even murdered for mentioning the Armenian Genocide.

Sadly Turks in Turkey are the second set of victims of the denial. A lot of us who have bothered to study the issue outside of Turkey know the genocide is an unequivocal fact.

There are Turkish scholars who have been freed from t he harassment and threats by moving to the US such as Taner Akcam, the leading Turkish background scholar on the Genocide. They show that this is a genocide.

C. Sandino Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 10:51 am
Hello Mr. Helms,
Thank you for allowing this spirited debate to take place on your forum. I am sure that you are aware that there entire regions of the world where investigating the Holocaust is a crime. Investigators have been beaten and jailed for doing so. Although America currently does not have laws pertaining to Holocaust investigation, America does have strong social norms and mores which damped and suppress any debate on the subject. The charge of antisemitism can slay the mightiest dragon. Ironically, the Armenian Holocaust (it was described that way in early newspaper accounts) can be minimized and relabeled. Why? Another Important question is why would the ADL work behind the scenes to suppress knowledge of the plight of Armenians? These are important questions that need investigating. However, a base knowledge of history is required before traveling down the side streets of history. Mohammed Rafiq gives an a concise overview of the history surrounding the Armenian genocide. I encourage to start there. Thank for your time

C. Sandino Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Congratulations Watertown!

The ADL has just released the following press release which acknowledges the.Christian Armenians genocide. However, Foxman stated,

“Having said that, we continue to firmly believe that a Congressional resolution on such matters is a counterproductive diversion and will not foster reconciliation between Turks and Armenians and may put at risk the Turkish Jewish community and the important multilateral relationship between Turkey, Israel and the United States.”

Source: http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/5114_00.htm

I wonder why the ADL feels that Turkish Jews could be put at risk? I wonder…

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Dear Simply Jaded or Jaded as you now prefer:

You are indeed correct, I did initiate the discussion of semantics. Thank you so much for noticing.

As for your question “what other source exists for me to fully realize that your posts are nothing more than you amusing yourself”, I might suggest serious study of Philosophy, Epistemology, Logic, and Linguistics.

Your comment that “…this ‘message board’ is my only exposure to your drivel, I have nothing else to base my conclusions on.” reveals that you do need to expand your knowledge base. It also suggests that you should add Composition to the above list.

Have a truly marvelous evening!


Jaded Says:

August 21st, 2007 at 8:14 pm
My Dear Rudolph,

I’m having a great deal of difficulty following your posts, they are a bit all over the place at best. I will agree with you in that we should all broaden our horizons, no matter how broad we feel they may be but unless you are suggesting you’ve published some logic, linguistics, epistemoilogy or philosophy works that I can take in, the Watertown Blog is the only body of your work I can base my opinion on. If you have published, please inform me and I will read your work and adjust my opinion accordingly. Until then, I stand by what I’ve “posted”, you are not funny and it appears that you don’t even pay attention to your own “postings” as “Simply Jaded” was a response to your query. I’m embarrassed to continue this dialogue in a post meant for a far more important issue than my opinion of your supposed humor and I apologize to the others. I will have a marvelous evening,hopefully you will as well and please continue to post if it amuses you but please leave the humor to John DiMascio.


Rudolph Settich Says:

August 22nd, 2007 at 3:49 am
“I’m having a great deal of difficulty following your posts…” in the future I will endeavor to communicate in terms that you can comprehend.

“I will agree with you in that we should all broaden our horizons…” Excellent!

” ‘Simply Jaded’ was a response to your query.” Thanks for clearing that up.

“I’m embarrassed to continue this dialogue in a post meant for a far more important issue than my opinion of your supposed humor and I apologize to the others.” This post is meant for far more important issues? Fascinating! In any event, apology accepted.

“…leave the humor to John DiMascio.” Townie humor for Townie tastes…


Erkin Baker Says:

August 22nd, 2007 at 9:18 am
As American citizens, most of us know that the basic principle of our justice system is, “A person, or entity, is innocent until proven guilty”. I repeat, Ottoman Turkey has never been found guilty of war crimes in an international court of justice. After World War I, The documents presented at the Malta Tribunals as proof by the Armenians , collectively known as the Andonian papers, were proven to be forgeries. This war-crimes tribunal was held by the British. All the Allies, including the United States, were asked to send in any evidence that they might have. The State Department answered back that they had none. Thus, the 144 Turkish leaders held on the island for about two years were released.

All this seems to be lost in translation — or rather, in a cloud of hysteria and hate by the Armenians.
If the Armenians have proof that the Turks’ intention was to eliminate them as an enthic or religious group, they should bring it to a proper court of justice. Since they do not have it, they pressure and threaten and cry foul to change public opinion in their favor. After all, they could not get their message across when scores of Turkish diplomats were assassinated by Armenians during the 1970’s and 1980’s

Erkin Baker.

C. Sandino Says:

August 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Interesting quote!

Mustafa Kemal Attaturk was
Quoted as saying:
I ‘am a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi–not indeed a Jew any more but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every Jew in this country would do well to join his camp.
source: Forward of New York 01/28/1994 “When Kemal Attaturk recited the Shema Yisrael : It’s My Secret Pray Too.” He Confessed” by Hillel Halkin

qrswave Says:

August 28th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
it seems John Kerry is not the only one who likes to “flip-flop.”

ADL flip-flops on Armenian Genocide

Rudolph Settich Says:

August 29th, 2007 at 9:48 am

Apparently “flip flop” is a common trait in the Commonwealth (pun intended).

For proof one has only to follow the recent pronouncements of Willard M. Romney.